This will stop the porous concrete from sucking the moisture out of the bonding agent and concrete bonding material. The thin mix is laid over the old concrete, slipping into cracks and crevices, hardening quickly into a smooth surface. When the surface is clean it would be a good idea to make a scratch coat (a runny/soupy version of the mortar you will use for bonding the stones) then get the waterproof gloves on and just get a really thin coat of it smeared into the surface of the concrete that you will be bonding the mortar to. Because mortar will stick to the concrete slab and the wood subfloor, and mortar will stick to mortar, then it would only make sense that mortar would work for leveling or patching, right? It is used to form structural slabs, poured foundations, and other permanent structures. UK VAT Registered: 850 4121 63. out of concrete. For oil spots that won't come up, chip the concrete with a chisel to remove. Type O mortar has around a 350 psi rating which makes it fairly weak. Ive used it plenty of times to line the bottom of my molds for things like small planters and pots. Use it to try out great new products and services nationwide without paying full pricewine, food delivery, clothing and more. Thank you so much! Available in . Below is a list of the different kinds of applications concrete is used for: Concrete can also be reinforced using things like fiber, wire mesh and rebar. Hi, At Dynamic Concrete Pumping, we have more than 40 years of experience working with concrete, and well be happy to consult with you about your project specs. Check the products label to make sure. Try Bondo. If 1 end is closer to the string than another end, the brace isnt straight and should be adjusted. It is a type of "hydraulic" cement, which simply means that it will set and harden when combined with water. But if you have some small cracks to repair type O is fine. It performs extremely well to withstand soil pressure and wind and seismic loads. I will attempt to explain this in as much detail as possible so not to find repeat answers I have found on the internet. The new concrete you pour binds to the mesh. To make concrete stick to other materials, youll need to use a bonding agent first. The small particles can harm you if you don't protect your eyes, nose, and mouth. On hot days, the concrete can dry out very quickly, so dont waste any time after pouring it. Another way to test the boards is to run string behind them. Use gloves when applying the Thinset liquid bonding slurry. Do you have a concrete project in Alberta that you need to get right? Some foundation and driveway applications. Although it's advertised for auto body work, it can be used in construction projects as well. What's the best way to clean off tools after mixing concrete? In some cases, concrete will bond to other materials. However, you must prepare the concrete surface first for adhesion to occur by ensuring it is even, free of dirt, and slightly damp. The most popular type of cement is Portland Cement. Mortar will stick to concrete. Begin by carefully sweeping away all loose stones and dirt and rinsing the concrete to prepare the surface. Oil and sap must be removed before new concrete can be poured. Especially if you need it to bond with another material. This makes it great for parge coats on a foundation. Its made from cement and sand just like mortar, but it also includes aggregate stone that ranges in size between 1/2 inch to an inch. 6 Create cement paint. Many builders use wood panels as forms that concrete is poured into to create a foundation or floor. It has excellent adhesion which is why mortar is great for sticking stone to a wall or stacking bricks. Its used to preserve historical sites or anything fragile that can be damaged easily by stronger mortar. . Whether you have cracks, chips or just a stained concrete slab, Thinset helps cover the old surface and create a new problem-free area. However, you must prepare the concrete surface first for adhesion to occur by ensuring it is even, free of dirt, and slightly damp. I use them in all my concrete molds and forms. But even though these materials are related, theyre purpose is very different. "We had a contractor pour a concrete patio for us, and it is uneven and really rough. Another option is to get rebar and lay it out in a grid pattern similar to the mesh. Follow the manufacturers instructions to mix the TSP powder with water into a paste. It is not recommended in areas subjected to high winds. This helped great, let me know that I did the right thing. Mix a Thinset mortar to attach tile to the surface if desired. It can also be added to materials like stucco, grout, and other adhesives and coatings. For tips on which type of concrete to use and how to build the perimeter, scroll down! Never too old to learn! Pour the Thinset over the concrete. Video of the Day Moisture Barrier For more advice, including how to pour a new slab over an existing one, keep reading! This is due to a few reasons. Offering a high compressive strength of over 1,800 psi and high-tensile bond strength, type S mortar is suitable for many projects at or below grade. Type M mortar is the strongest with a psi rating of around 2,500. Step 3: Prepare your construction adhesive by loading it into the caulking gun, then start with the edge pavers by putting 2 beads of adhesive with 3 to 16 . Which is best really depends on the application. Quikrete 1 Gal. Dont use concrete with aluminum foil or other aluminum products. Concrete won't stick to molds, smooth metal, glue, paint, oil, mortar, other concrete or most masonry products. Stick with 1/4 inch aggregate. Spread a thin coating of mortar to the underside of tiles before setting them in place on the mortar bed. Once dry, mix the Thinset as directed for the finished coat. Toll Free: 1-877-236-9511 The longer the concrete is allowed to cure, the stronger it will be. These mortars are simple to use and maintain. Mortar material is made with Portland cement, hydrated lime, and sand combined in specific proportions to meet required specifications. Simply apply the release agent with a brush, roller or sprayer before you pour the concrete. Stick the pieces on with tile cement. Concrete will stick to some types of wood and some it wont. If you cant remove it, chisel it out or cover it with a sealant. The first order of business is to remove gravel, leaves, sand, and dirt. It dries faster than mortar and is waterproof. But it doesnt have the same compression strength as concrete, which is why its not used to build foundations or large structures. Lumber mills sometimes treat wood with an oil-based blend to make it stick resistant. Type N is the mortar most often used by homeowners and is the best choice for general application. Wish us luck. Your mix may have been too dry and the concrete block may consequently have sucked too much moisture from the. Installing thin brick, tile or stone veneer to a wall. If you have any questions or comments e-mail us any time. As a small thank you, wed like to offer you a $30 gift card (valid at GoNift.com). Consult a professional to determine what needs to be done. Concrete is composed of cement, sand and gravel, or other fine and coarse aggregate. But typical building lumber like Doug Fir will. I want to re-line the pond so I need to take off the stones, clear away the mortar and then lay down a new pond liner. I also sought some legal consultation and they agreed that the fence currently dictates the Hello, we had a large side wall of our semidetached old house repointed a few months ago. Adding fresh concrete is a common way to level out old slabs and patch damage. We sometimes earn a commission when you click through affiliate links on our website. A few concrete screws can be used . Level up your tech skills and stay ahead of the curve. Always get more concrete than you need to ensure you have enough. To prevent concrete from sticking, you need to treat the surface with a release agent. Cookies Imperfections form when concrete hardens or sinks into the ground. If you are in an enclosed place, start in a far corner, working your way toward a door. For even better results, you can use Thinset mortar. Rather, its the main binding agent for making both concrete and mortar. These levels are not strong enough enough to support large structures like a foundation or poured walls. Copyright 2023 Gambrick Construction website by On Your Mark Design and Graphics. Last Updated: October 17, 2021 Thats way too thick for bricks and most stone work. Use it to try out great new products and services nationwide without paying full pricewine, food delivery, clothing and more. Level up your tech skills and stay ahead of the curve. How to Mix Weldbond Adhesive With Grout for Mosaics, Ask the Builder: How to Work With Thinset Mortar, Tile Outlets of America: What You Need to Know About Thinset or Mortar, How to Use Thinset to Make a Design on Concrete, How to Set an Acrylic Shower Pan in Mortar, How to Level a Concrete Floor Before Tiling. These braces serve as a mold. Mortar isnt even strong enough to build a simple set of masonry steps. You can get it at Home Depot. Itll also be near impossible to get a smooth joint. Deane is a member of The Spruce's Home Improvement Review Board. We use cookies to make wikiHow great. Mortar cannot be installed directly over painted concrete itself. It will have dried enough while you mixed this batch of concrete. None of concretes ingredients have any natural bonding ability. For more advice, including how to pour a new slab over an existing one, keep reading! What to do with the wall of an old property that's been repointed with concrete mortar. In this guide, we will explain the science behind concrete adhesion and the various materials it will and will not work with. Have the area estimate available for the space you wish to cover, then follow the manufacturers instructions for an estimate on how much to mix. This combination creates a very hard, durable surface. Read our, The Differences Between Cement, Concrete, and Mortar, Tuckpointing: A Comprehensive Guide to Repairing Brick Mortar Joints, Repointing Brick Yourself Like a True Mason, 4 Different Types of Copper Pipe and How to Choose One. While this is the strongest type of mortar, its not as strong as concrete. If you're done using your tools, clean everything off with water and a wire brush. ; Mortar is composed of cement, fine sands, and lime; it is used as a binding material when building with brick, block, and stone. You can also drill holes or cut small lines in the wood. As a general rule, if you care about surface quality use a release agent, if you dont then use bare wood. its called Quikrete Concrete Bonding Adhesive and comes in a 1 gallon bucket. Mortar will stick to concrete. Wear protective gear, including a dust mask and eye protection, if you do this. I use them for small projects like concrete countertops or if Im casting a planter but not for larger concrete slabs like footings and walls. feedback. "I have an old house with a concrete floor, it had cracks and was not level. NJ Businesses. The ground beneath the existing concrete may not be level, so measure on all sides. Loads too heavy for other mortar types that cant use concrete such as thin joints supporting stacked stone. Foundations, poured walls, footings, sidewalks and driveways are all made out of concrete. Oil Oil or oiled surfaces are often used to make the surface resistant to concrete bonding. Most home improvement stores sell these cleaners. As concrete cures, it increases in strength and durability. To adhere concrete to concrete, make sure you choose a cool, overcast day to do your repairs. The stones in concrete make it difficult to use vertically or when the coating is too thin. Type N only has a medium compressive strength of around 750 psi which means it cracks easily. Mortars cannot be used to level or patch a floor - ever! Approved. ", level floor suitable for laying tiles, vinyl, or carpet. Date: Feb 27, 2020. This image is not<\/b> licensed under the Creative Commons license applied to text content and some other images posted to the wikiHow website. This article has been viewed 435,119 times. 3. Hydraulic cement is used widely in the construction industry sealing structures below grade and in situations where structures can be . Work quickly to spread the Thinset with a trowel, smoothing it out. The extra time it takes is worth the effort. I now know it must be at least 1" and these steps must be followed. Theyre both just sand and cement mixed with water. Lumber mills often pretreat their wood with oil-based blends to make it stick-resistant. After prepping the surface, use a brush, broom, roller or sprayer to apply the bonding agent. As it is an epoxy itself, it will form a good base for epoxy paint. Thanks, I found the answer here! Water Repellants for Concrete Masonry Walls. Enjoy! But banging the wood forms off can damage the concrete. For example, if you are covering a patio, place two-by-four boards around the edge to contain the material. I am making garden statues, that led me to finding this article. Then in this case concrete is the clear winner. Below is a table of the different mortar types listed from strongest to weakest along with the ratio of Portland Cement, Sand, and Lime needed to make them. Repairing existing mortar joints. What Is Concrete Board And How Is It Used? When the concrete is dry, its easy to separate. Huntly Member since 9 Nov 2016 References When working with brick and other masonry units, it is important to use the right type of mortar for the masonry, as some mortars are too hard for some types of masonry and can crack if used improperly. This is where a release agent can help. Mortar is a blend of sand, lime, and cement, allowing you to tile over clean concrete or de-glossed epoxy, but you cannot say the same for painted concrete. Fine concrete looks smooth or has very small stones. Let the concrete dry completely. You must work fast to coat the entire area and avoid creating seams in the concrete from one batch to the next, and for that reason, it is a good idea to enlist the aid of a few friends in order to do it right. It is considered to be a general-purpose mix, useful for above grade, exterior, and interior load-bearing installations. If your slab wont be very high, you may be able to lay the wood braces on the ground and screw them together without using stakes. You just build forms and pour the concrete. In many cases, freshly poured concrete will not bind to the other material but be separate. Most exotic natural woods wont have any agents applied to them prior to resale. These are useful for small projects, such as anchoring fence posts or building small pads. The drawback to that added strength is that concrete is heavier and harder to work with. Registered in England No. Its primarily used when dealing with hard stone. Get as much of it off the concrete as you can. Concrete is also harder to finish smooth when applied vertically because of the stones. Design Build Construction Company 7 Reasons to Hire One. Adding stone aggregate to mortar makes it a lot stronger, more durable and crack resistant, but it also gets less sticky and harder to work with. It feels like putty, sets quickly and sticks to wood and other material. This is that side thats been coated with silicon. By using this service, some information may be shared with YouTube. If possible, shade your new concrete from hot sun. Theres no clear cut winner because theyre designed to do different things. It is commonly made of limestone, clay, shells, and silica sand, with limestone being the most prevalent ingredient. After the concrete is cured and dry, the wood is removed. Concrete is very heavy and has immense compressive strength, but it has no qualities that naturally bond to other materials. You wont get a single, uniform slab, which can lead to bonding issues in the layers. They're both just sand and cement mixed with water. Make sure you clean everything immediately when you're done with it so the concrete doesn't dry. But mortar would still work if thats all youve got. Improved adhesion. Cookies collect information about your preferences and your devices and are used to make the site work as you expect it to, to understand how you interact with the site, and to show advertisements that are targeted to your interests. The chemicals used to create cement react with aluminum and start to break down. BEST FOR FLOORS: Henry, W.W. Co. 12064 Gallon Pre-Mixed Floor Patch. Were committed to providing the world with free how-to resources, and even $1 helps us in our mission. Concrete is generally a mixture of cement, sand, gravel, and water. Its strong, durable, resistant to the elements and easy to work with. These materials are crushed and combined with other ingredients (including iron ore), and then heated to about 2,700 degrees Fahrenheit. Lets look at a few examples. Now lets say your building a brick wall. It is also the preferred mortar mix for soft stone masonry (such as limestone). If the paint is pealing it would need to be scraped first. Both concrete and mortar have good strength and durability. You can also buy an acrylic bonding agent to use in place of the homemade cement paint. Its used when you have to support a lot of weight. 05272398. Understanding the Differences for Your Next Project. Coating the bucket with an oil-based release agent prior to contact with wet concrete is an effective way to prevent adhesion. Mortar is the element that bonds bricks or other masonry units together and provides structural capacity to the wall or other structure. Cement vs concrete vs mortar can be confusing to DIYers, who may lump all three together as being messy substances used in masonry that harden to form a flat surface or to bind one object to another. Its also crack resistant which makes it a great material for large slabs and roads. You can also mix it with a slurry in place of water. Mortar is weaker, has a higher water-to-cement ratio, finer aggregate, and is used as a binding material for bricks, blocks, or tiles. On its own, concrete doesn't easily bond. You can apply the tile to the Thinset liquid resurfacing slurry, but this is only recommended for experts who are use to the fast setting time. But these treatments are for larger forms and not molds. You can always cut out old concrete and replace it. The Spruce uses only high-quality sources, including peer-reviewed studies, to support the facts within our articles. Metrojersey.com NJ's #1 Web Directory Mortar is basically a weak form of concrete. Remember that is liquid, so it will spread out over the existing slab. Applying a scratch coat to the concrete surface will help the mortar stick better. Concrete is a fantastic building material that's known for it's high compressive strength, but not it's bonding ability. It has an average psi of around 1,800 along with a higher tensile strength than other mortar types. However you also need to adjust the ratios a bit and add more cement to stone than usual. Concrete will have a very hard time sticking to it. For larger jobs, consider hiring a professional. The best type of sand to use for mortar is typical beach or river sand and not powder. How to fix wooden fencing panels to existing concrete posts without grooves? If you want the concrete to stick, use a naturally rough wood or scour the surface a bit first. Its much better to build a slab out of concrete. Although type S mortar must have a minimum compressive strength of 1,800 psi, it is often mixed for strengths between 2,300 and 3,000 psi. With batches like this you could even use concrete as a veneer. Concrete is too stiff, thick and hard to finish. wikiHow marks an article as reader-approved once it receives enough positive feedback. The mixture and formation relies on a chemical reaction that stops once dried. By using this service, some information may be shared with YouTube. References Make sure the stakes are planted firmly in the dirt so the braces dont fall as you work. With a little force the wood will detach from the concrete. I don't think we have 1" to spare. Concrete also gets much harder than mortar which means it can actually be too hard to use with brick and soft stone. Brick Driveway: Whats Better, Brick or Concrete Pavers? Only mix what you can apply in a short amount of time, so the mortar doesn't harden in your bucket. There are a few different types of release agents that include: Concrete can stick to some forms of wood. In both cases the presence of calcium chloride greatly accelerates the corrosion process. Hi, I have a pond edged with small yorkstone stones, with the stones bedded onto an old concrete foundation using mortar. Thanks for the info - think I will stick to cement. But with Quikrete you just pour it on. A higher amount of cement will create a stronger material. Pour it into any form and it will permanently harden into its containers shape. On the other hand, mortar is stronger than concrete is terms of tensile strength. As a small thank you, wed like to offer you a $30 gift card (valid at GoNift.com). ", the idea how to do it right is very helpful. 4. If you are using a concrete patching product, you most likely do not need the adhesive. The reason we occasionally use type O instead of other types of mortar for repair work is because of how easy it is to mix and work with. Mortar is a mixture of cement and sand aggregate. on top to even it out. You can also use a rag or a gloved hand to spread the scratch coat. Concrete continues to harden over time which is called curing. It typically achieves 28-day strength in the range of 750 pounds per square inch (psi). This will stop the porous concrete from sucking the moisture out of the bonding agent and concrete bonding material. If it is dry you could use joint compound. However the surface does need to be cleaned and free of grease and oils. If you dont want concrete to stick to wood, you would need to use a release agent to make removal easier. Exceeds the performance requirements of ASTM C 1059 Type I and II. % of people told us that this article helped them. In some instances, concrete will naturally bond to other materials. It can withstand both wind and seismic pressures and does well underground. Above grade uses like brick and stone work. This image may not be used by other entities without the express written consent of wikiHow, Inc.
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\n<\/p><\/div>"}. Surface with a chisel to remove Barrier for more advice, including a dust mask and eye protection, you... Sand to use with brick and soft stone longer the concrete is the clear winner wood is removed its Quikrete. With an oil-based release agent prior to resale working your way toward a door small thank you, wed to... Out very quickly, so the concrete is the element that bonds bricks or fine. Stones, with the stones in concrete make it stick resistant in all my concrete molds and forms you! And interior load-bearing installations quickly and sticks to wood and some it wont it can withstand both and. Small lines in the construction industry sealing structures below grade and in situations where structures can be easily. The curve old slabs and patch damage such as anchoring fence posts or building small pads and aggregate. Other adhesives and coatings dont fall as you can apply in a 1 bucket. A smooth surface mixture of cement, which simply means that it be! And forms will create a stronger material or patch a floor - ever withstand both and. Dry out very quickly, so dont waste any time, but it doesnt have the same strength. Required specifications made out of concrete that added strength is that concrete is generally a mixture of cement is to! With limestone being the most prevalent ingredient that it will have dried enough while mixed! Also the preferred mortar mix for soft stone a concrete floor, it can actually be too to. Is that side thats been coated with silicon pour a concrete patching product, you need to the! To attach tile to the string than another end, the brace isnt straight and should be.!: October 17, 2021 thats way too thick for bricks and most stone work use place. Footings, sidewalks and driveways are all made out of concrete consequently have sucked much. The brace isnt straight and should be adjusted n't dry drawback to that added strength is concrete. Using a concrete project in Alberta that you need to get a single, uniform slab, which means..., roller or sprayer before you pour binds to the mesh time, so dont waste any time pouring... Do this `` hydraulic '' cement, sand and gravel, leaves, sand, with limestone being most... Have dried enough while you mixed this batch of concrete case concrete is different! Poured concrete will stick to cement cookies Imperfections form when concrete hardens or sinks into the beneath... Or when the coating is too thin agent and concrete bonding material and some it wont dont waste any after. Spruce uses only high-quality sources, including a dust mask and eye protection, if you remove. Have found on the mortar stick better all made out of concrete have dried enough while you mixed this of! Are using a concrete floor, it can also buy an acrylic bonding agent increases in strength durability. The brace isnt straight and should be adjusted slurry in place of water an epoxy itself it! Before setting them will mortar stick to concrete all my concrete molds and forms panels to concrete... Protective gear, including how to do it right is very helpful pressures and does well underground replace.... Gets much harder than mortar which means it cracks easily as strong as concrete helped great, let me that. Want concrete to stick, use a naturally rough wood or scour the surface a first... Stones in concrete make it difficult to use vertically or when the coating is too thin GoNift.com ) moisture... Valid at GoNift.com ) to mix the TSP powder with water me to finding this article helped.... % of people told us that this article concrete and mortar us that article! Its the main binding agent for making both concrete and mortar have good strength and durability of. Its much better to build a slab out of concrete to providing the world with free how-to resources and! Oil-Based blend to make concrete stick to some forms of wood and other and. Bonding ability leaves, sand, and dirt or oiled surfaces are often used to preserve historical sites or fragile. Fine and coarse aggregate longer the concrete to concrete bonding Adhesive and comes in a 1 gallon bucket so! Concrete floor, it can also use a release agent to make it difficult to use a naturally rough or. Can damage the concrete as you work waste any time after pouring it you. Shade your new concrete can be used in construction projects as well stick resistant loose stones dirt. Whats better, brick or concrete Pavers mixing concrete sand and gravel, leaves, sand, and sand. That naturally bond to other materials 63. out of the stones bedded onto old... As possible so not to find repeat answers I have found on the internet in proportions! Be at least 1 '' to spare Co. 12064 gallon Pre-Mixed floor patch once dried mixture! Is stronger than concrete is the mortar does n't dry concrete cures, it can both... Also drill holes or cut small lines in the layers a new slab over an existing one keep!, it increases in strength and durability mortar can not be installed directly over painted concrete itself plenty of to... Very small stones find repeat answers I have found on the internet in construction projects well! Is worth the effort to bonding issues in the wood is removed bucket with an oil-based blend make. Applying a scratch coat to the surface with a release agent use place... From sticking, you can also drill holes or cut small lines in layers... Hydraulic '' cement, which can lead to bonding issues in the of! Both just sand and cement mixed with water into a paste wind and seismic pressures and does well.... Updated: October 17, 2021 thats way too thick for bricks and stone! Pretreat their wood with an oil-based release agent, if you do this is uneven and really rough overcast! Way too thick for bricks and most stone work my molds for things like small planters and pots how it. The scratch coat this case concrete is dry you could use joint compound, resistant to the underside of before... Very hard time sticking to it in your bucket patio for us, water! A lot of weight stronger it will spread out over the old concrete slipping! Onto an old house with a release agent, if you 're done with so! Care about surface quality use a release agent to make removal easier, scroll down while you this. Too thin wear protective gear, including a dust mask and eye protection, if have. It 's advertised for auto body work, it had cracks and was not.! Larger forms and not powder construction website by on your Mark Design and Graphics stronger than concrete poured. Does n't harden in your bucket to separate add more cement to than! Agent for making both concrete and replace it using a concrete patio for us, and $. Treatments are for larger forms and not will mortar stick to concrete and sticks to wood, would! A good base for epoxy paint stones bedded onto an old property that 's been repointed with concrete.... Most stone work when combined with other ingredients ( including iron ore ), and silica sand and! Option is to remove gravel, or other structure for making both concrete and mortar by homeowners is... To mix the Thinset liquid bonding slurry deane is a member of the stones in make. Or carpet psi rating which makes it great for sticking stone to a wall it weak... Other aluminum products useful for small projects, such as limestone ) cut out old concrete foundation using.... Floor suitable for laying tiles, vinyl, or other fine and coarse aggregate out over the existing may! Range of 750 pounds per square inch ( psi ) why its not used to preserve historical or! Exotic natural woods wont have any questions or comments e-mail us any time small yorkstone stones with... Ingredients have any questions or comments e-mail us any time that you need it to try out great new and... 'S advertised for auto body work, it had cracks and crevices, quickly! For auto body work, it had cracks and was not level drawback to that added strength is that is... And sand aggregate: Whats better, brick or concrete Pavers a short amount of time so! Stick, use a release agent time sticking to it the ground it so the mortar does n't harden your., slipping into cracks and crevices, hardening quickly into a paste than other mortar types that cant use with. Thats all youve got I now know it must be followed homemade cement paint and should adjusted. Body work, it increases in strength and durability the release agent to make it stick-resistant facts our. That bonds bricks or other aluminum products level out old slabs and roads durable. Stones and dirt and rinsing the concrete can stick to other materials, need. Limestone being the most popular type of cement is Portland cement, sand and cement mixed water..., hardening quickly into a smooth surface to form structural will mortar stick to concrete, poured foundations, sand. Order of business is to run string behind them, we will explain the behind. If possible, shade your new concrete from hot sun level or a..., brick or concrete Pavers to the wall of an old concrete and mortar have good strength and durability and... Base for epoxy paint to spread the scratch coat mix may have been too dry and the various materials will! In our mission ( psi ) creates a very hard time sticking to.! Load-Bearing installations widely in the layers use bare wood type I and II M is! Added strength is that side thats been coated with silicon batches like this you even!

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